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Posted 8/9/14
finally a shinsekai discussion board lol
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20 / F / Over the Hills an...
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Posted 8/9/14

Gafennec wrote:

I watched The Sacred Blacksmith last night in a marathon due to insomnia..


What does that have to do with this forum
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Posted 8/9/14

Arielgirl375 wrote:


Gafennec wrote:

I watched The Sacred Blacksmith last night in a marathon due to insomnia..


What does that have to do with this forum


Sorry, I was looking at another post and hit the wrong one to replay too. Just blame it on old age and senility. Highly embarrassed now.
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Posted 8/9/14

Gafennec wrote:


Arielgirl375 wrote:


Gafennec wrote:

I watched The Sacred Blacksmith last night in a marathon due to insomnia..


What does that have to do with this forum


Sorry, I was looking at another post and hit the wrong one to replay too. Just blame it on old age and senility. Highly embarrassed now.


It's ok, u gave me a good laugh.
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Posted 5/11/15
Im just curious,are there any biology nerds who recognized that plot whole in the end of this series ?

its definably a good series, it does a good job trying to tie its fantastical biology with the real world biology
and is really planed out well....for the most parrt

So far ive only got teen girl tears when i pointed it out , who think humans can imprint (really ?)
and "its just made up anime bullshite" when i pointed it out the plot whole

(there is the obvious crazed up biology of the monster rats but its clear the writers(s) took a lot more artistic liberty with that)
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Posted 5/11/15

i_want wrote:


Wasn't it said that they had the ability to manipulate everything with their powers, like that lady and her telomeres? Been a while since I watched it, shame I can't remember the names and whatnot.

But, doesn't that kind of mean they can create and do whatever they want and not have to worry about natural biology and the laws of nature as they are now?

Is that even what's being asked?
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Posted 5/12/15

i_want wrote:

Im just curious,are there any biology nerds who recognized that plot whole in the end of this series ?

its definably a good series, it does a good job trying to tie its fantastical biology with the real world biology
and is really planed out well....for the most parrt

So far ive only got teen girl tears when i pointed it out , who think humans can imprint (really ?)
and "its just made up anime bullshite" when i pointed it out the plot whole

(there is the obvious crazed up biology of the monster rats but its clear the writers(s) took a lot more artistic liberty with that)


It's been some time since I watched the show. Care to be more specific?
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Posted 5/12/15
This is the only SF story the writer has done. Usually they just do murder mysteries and horror. If you think of it that way, the whole thing is really a big "whodunnit" mystery story which is what the author is better known for.

The plot of the imprinting death of shame isn't too bad really. Human identity is quite strong and is the reason why we still have so many race issues today. You can think of it like how in many parts of the world today people kill their neighbors and feel good about it because they have been taught to hate that country or race. And yet, if they killed one of their own, they would probably feel bad about it and would be charged with murder for doing it. Kill race X = good, kill your own race = bad. It is part of our social psychology. We don't have the death of shame programmed into us but most of us won't kill because of the societal shame and death or imprisonment that will occur... unless you're in the military or the police and the death is justified of course so for them, we have to make it so that they feel OK about killing in the line of duty and so that society feels OK about them doing their duty. Not that different really.

The Psycho Buster was a part that bothered me. For an ancient bioweapon to even work it would require that very little had changed in the telekinetics' genes since it was made. In the end it was blown away anyhow so it didn't even have a chance to work but I think it would have been a better idea to have it NOT work because it was thousands of years old and the genes had drifted or the bacterial spores were dead or something. It was an interesting character interaction to have Saki blow it away rather than lose practically the only person left on the planet that she cared about; I liked that part but for SF, biology and murder mysteries the Psycho Buster was pretty cheesy. And the name is super cheesy. It did show that Saki cared for Satoru and without that the marriage at the end would have been pretty weak though it was still apparent that she loved Shun and Maria more.

Still sad about Maria... when reading the novel I hoped until the last few pages that she might still be alive, that Squealer had just removed a finger or something for the bone evidence of their death but alas, not to be... why, why, why, Maria???

And Shun too... when reading the book I always thought he was more of a presence than just a memory.

Still really cool and one of my top 5 anime and novels of all time I think.
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Posted 5/12/15 , edited 5/12/15
Is the novel available in English? I'd love to read it. I thought the anime was amazing. No, it's not hard sci fi, but it obviously wasn't trying to be. It was still brilliant speculative fiction.
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Posted 5/14/15 , edited 5/14/15

mythopoet wrote:


i_want wrote:

Im just curious,are there any biology nerds who recognized that plot whole in the end of this series ?

its definably a good series, it does a good job trying to tie its fantastical biology with the real world biology
and is really planed out well....for the most parrt

So far ive only got teen girl tears when i pointed it out , who think humans can imprint (really ?)
and "its just made up anime bullshite" when i pointed it out the plot whole

(there is the obvious crazed up biology of the monster rats but its clear the writers(s) took a lot more artistic liberty with that)


It's been some time since I watched the show. Care to be more specific?


Biology has always played a big part in this anime, it doesn’t matter that there powers are physic and they are physic,…because they already pre-established a direct connect with biology.

Going on the shows own logic the Fake Ogre/ Maria and mamuro’s child, should have never been able to kill other humans without suffering the shame of death immediately

- The reason we are given that the fake ogre could kill humans without dying the Shame of death was because s/he was not aware that she was human, she thought she was a monster rat. . . but so what ?

The fourth episodes explained that humans directly edited the human genome…. The first one being an aversion to hurting one’s own species * right of the bat the Fake ogre should have at least been sick after killing so many people or acting strange*
(*Its noted in the final episodes that s/he did start acting strange after they got close to the temple but not throughout the attack)

The second edit directly to the human genome was the shame of death. So its now been clearly established that the character powers which are physic are directly connected to them biological. They reinforced the shame of death into their children, but it something they are born with. Humans born with weak powers or no powers are not born with the Shame of death which reinforces the idea that the physic powers are directly connected biological .

If you are sick with an illness it does not matter if you are unaware what type of illness you have, your still going to be sick. Human or animal biology still works regardless of your capability to understand it// and this show tried so hard to tie in biology with their powers with out trying to hit you over the head with made up facts and used parts of psychology I was a bit disappointed… nice try though .

I probably sound like a bit of a broken record with the *biology,biology ! thing but*
the main problem i have is that 'From the new world' connected the logic of the world with real biology
in juxtaposition to something like "One piece" where pretty much everything is made up nonsense,which is fine ..as long as your fictional world continues to follows the logic you created. If you borrow your logic on preexisting things in real life then you are bound to that in your fictional world. Which is can cause a plot hole
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Posted 5/14/15
Your points are valid and yes, the whole thing with Maria's child did feel weak. However, while the biology of their powers was important, I don't think it was an actual focus of the story. I think the story was far more focused on the sociological implications of the powers. So yes, some of the biology and science behind it all was fuzzy and started to stretch really thin toward the end, but I still think the story accomplished what it set out to do thematically, which is to explore how human beings responded to the consequences of their powers in different circumstances. If you just suspend your disbelief a little and accept the whole "death of shame" thing, despite its weaknesses, I think the whole story was immensely satisfying on that level.
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Posted 5/14/15 , edited 5/14/15

mythopoet wrote:

Is the novel available in English? I'd love to read it. I thought the anime was amazing. No, it's not hard sci fi, but it obviously wasn't trying to be. It was still brilliant speculative fiction.


umm. it is a science fiction though ?. The novel even won and award in science fiction- the award is called the "Nihon SF taisho award"
I don't think there is a legal translation but ive seen translation floaitng around online. google is your friend

http://shinsekai.cadet-nine.org/category/part-i-season-of-new-leaves/
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Posted 5/14/15

i_want wrote:


mythopoet wrote:

Is the novel available in English? I'd love to read it. I thought the anime was amazing. No, it's not hard sci fi, but it obviously wasn't trying to be. It was still brilliant speculative fiction.


umm. it is a science fiction though ?. The novel even won and award in science fiction- the award is called the "Nihon SF taisho award"
I don't think there is a legal translation but ive seen translation floaitng around online. google is your friend

http://shinsekai.cadet-nine.org/category/part-i-season-of-new-leaves/


Star Trek is SF too and we all know how valid that science is.

I think Shin Sekai Yori is definitely not what we over here would call "hard SF" where it's expected that all the foundational science is correct.

I remember searching for an english version after watching the anime but didn't find one. I'll have to look again.
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Posted 5/14/15

mythopoet wrote:


i_want wrote:


mythopoet wrote:

Is the novel available in English? I'd love to read it. I thought the anime was amazing. No, it's not hard sci fi, but it obviously wasn't trying to be. It was still brilliant speculative fiction.


umm. it is a science fiction though ?. The novel even won and award in science fiction- the award is called the "Nihon SF taisho award"
I don't think there is a legal translation but ive seen translation floaitng around online. google is your friend

http://shinsekai.cadet-nine.org/category/part-i-season-of-new-leaves/


Star Trek is SF too and we all know how valid that science is.

I think Shin Sekai Yori is definitely not what we over here would call "hard SF" where it's expected that all the foundational science is correct.

I remember searching for an english version after watching the anime but didn't find one. I'll have to look again.


true,true
Everything considered shin Sekai Yori, does "try" *cough cough*

The link I gave you claims to be a translation, since its not licenses i can't be sure but its something.

just to add

Oh, don’t get me wrong I think this show as a whole is very well done. I just don’t believe in pretending something is perfect. I was really confused because I realized something was off at the end, and then annoyed because I (personal) kept running into fans who wanted to just ignore the plot hole.

It would not be a fair criticism to the show if I ignored the issue but its defiantly better to fall off the wagon towards the end of a series then, in the middle or course at the beginning . Writing is very difficult thing to do and tying into real science is even harder, so I think the book defiantly deserves that award.

Other than the plot hole, “From the new world” is a great thought provoking show. The costume design is great and is what I image Japanese clothing would look like if japan never westernized. On one level the show is terrifying without trying to use a lot of gore, just with the implications of human powers.
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Posted 5/18/15

i_want wrote:


mythopoet wrote:


i_want wrote:

Im just curious,are there any biology nerds who recognized that plot whole in the end of this series ?

its definably a good series, it does a good job trying to tie its fantastical biology with the real world biology
and is really planed out well....for the most parrt

So far ive only got teen girl tears when i pointed it out , who think humans can imprint (really ?)
and "its just made up anime bullshite" when i pointed it out the plot whole

(there is the obvious crazed up biology of the monster rats but its clear the writers(s) took a lot more artistic liberty with that)


It's been some time since I watched the show. Care to be more specific?


Biology has always played a big part in this anime, it doesn’t matter that there powers are physic and they are physic,…because they already pre-established a direct connect with biology.

Going on the shows own logic the Fake Ogre/ Maria and mamuro’s child, should have never been able to kill other humans without suffering the shame of death immediately

- The reason we are given that the fake ogre could kill humans without dying the Shame of death was because s/he was not aware that she was human, she thought she was a monster rat. . . but so what ?

The fourth episodes explained that humans directly edited the human genome…. The first one being an aversion to hurting one’s own species * right of the bat the Fake ogre should have at least been sick after killing so many people or acting strange*
(*Its noted in the final episodes that s/he did start acting strange after they got close to the temple but not throughout the attack)

The second edit directly to the human genome was the shame of death. So its now been clearly established that the character powers which are physic are directly connected to them biological. They reinforced the shame of death into their children, but it something they are born with. Humans born with weak powers or no powers are not born with the Shame of death which reinforces the idea that the physic powers are directly connected biological .

If you are sick with an illness it does not matter if you are unaware what type of illness you have, your still going to be sick. Human or animal biology still works regardless of your capability to understand it// and this show tried so hard to tie in biology with their powers with out trying to hit you over the head with made up facts and used parts of psychology I was a bit disappointed… nice try though .

I probably sound like a bit of a broken record with the *biology,biology ! thing but*
the main problem i have is that 'From the new world' connected the logic of the world with real biology
in juxtaposition to something like "One piece" where pretty much everything is made up nonsense,which is fine ..as long as your fictional world continues to follows the logic you created. If you borrow your logic on preexisting things in real life then you are bound to that in your fictional world. Which is can cause a plot hole


After giving this some thought, and reading the translation of the novel (I've gotten to the part after they talked to the false minoshiro and the priest Rijin sealed their cantus) I think it does make sense. If you think about it, it wouldn't make any sense for your body to automatically know when you've attacked another PK user. The Death of Shame relies on your brain perceiving that you have harmed one of your own kind for the feedback to take effect. This is shown when Rijin suffers feedback from destroying the false minoshiro that projected an image of a human woman. And so for Maria and Mamoru's child it would work the same way. She perceives that she is killing on of her own kind. She's wrong, but then the image was just an image, yet Rijin still suffered. So this was established early in the story.

The novel is absolutely brilliant, by the way. A lot of wonderful detail that couldn't fit into the anime.
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